Transparency data

SAB meeting minutes: 2 April 2020

Updated 16 September 2024

Applies to England and Wales

Members Present via telephone:

Independent Chair

Elizabeth France

Secretariat

Afsana Begum

Police Federation of England and Wales (PFEW)

Alex Duncan (SAB Member) John Partington Mike Brown Gemma Lofts

Police Superintendents’ Association (PSA)

Dan Murphy (SAB Member) Eamonn Carroll

Association of Police and Crime Commissioners (APCC)

Andrew Tremayne Charlotte Radford (SAB Member)

Chief Police Officers’ Staff Association (CPOSA)

Lisa Winward Shabir Hussain (SAB Member)

National Police Chief’s Council (NPCC)

James Hurley (SAB Member) Kevin Courtney

National Association of Retired Police Officers (NARPO)

Steve Edwards (SAB Member)

Home Office (HO)

Angela Chadha Amar Pannu Sara Alderman Wadha Salah

Scottish Police Federation (SPF)

Calum Steele

Association of Scottish Police Superintendents (ASPS)

Craig Suttie

Police Federation Northern Ireland (PFNI)

Liam Kelly

Superintendent’s Association of Northern Ireland (SANI)

Robert Drennan

Department of Justice, Northern Ireland (DoJNI)

Antonia Hoskins

Northern Ireland Policing Board (NIPB)

Aislinn McGuckin

Scottish Police Authority

Sharon Dalli

Scottish Government

Iain Coltman

In attendance

Clair Alcock (Fire SAB) – item 8a.

Welcome and apologies

1. The Chair welcomed members to the meeting which was held via telephone due to Covid-19. Minutes of the meeting of 13 January 2020

2. Members agreed the minutes of the joint UKPPCF and SAB meeting held on 13 January 2020. Action Point 1: Secretariat to publish agreed minutes of 13 January 2020 on the webpage.

Matters arising / action log

3. The Chair went through the action log of 13 January meeting, which has been updated in the light of discussion

Key points discussed were:

Action Point 2 – The Home Office (HO) had received legal advice from outsourced lawyers on scheme sanction charges which was being reviewed by HO Legal Advisers. Covid-19 related work had caused some delay in the internal review, which was intended to ensure the advice was expressed clearly. It was expected that the Home Office would be in a position to provide an answer on scheme sanction charges in the next few weeks.

Action Point 3 – HO statisticians had provided a further response with an analysis on the opt-out data collected which was circulated to members.

James Hurley (NPCC) pointed out that while the analysis did not distinguish between schemes when showing opt out numbers, the age of members opting out gave cause for concern. Looking at the 25-39 age cohort there was an 8-9% opt out rate. In discussion it was agreed that it would be helpful to ask whether GAD could provide an illustrative model showing the impact on the current scheme of such an opt-out rate.

At the previous meeting members had asked whether analysis by force was possible. Kevin Courtney (NPCC) explained that, the data were not held in this way. Nevertheless, he would work with Shabir Hussein and HO to see what further information could be extracted from the data sets held.

Another source of information would be the forthcoming auto enrolment exercise. It was agreed that the Chair would ask scheme managers and pension board chairs to let the SAB know how many of those auto enrolled then opted-out. The request would be followed up by Kevin Courtney.

Action Point 2: Amar Pannu (HO) to contact GAD and ask if they could model the impact of 8-9% opt out on the viability of the scheme.

Action Point 3: Kevin Courtney (NPCC) and Shabir Hussain (CPOSA) to look at the opt-out database with the Home Office.

Action Point 4: Chair to ask in quarterly letter to pension board chairs and scheme managers the number of officers auto re-enrolled this year and the number subsequently opting out. This would be followed up by Kevin Courtney.

Action Point 4 – Dan Murphy (PSA) reported the FBU had not yet issued a letter before action in relation to the pausing of the cost cap remedy.

Action Points 5, 6 and 7 – These all related to guidance for re-joiners. In January the focus had been on re-joining to help to meet the uplift targets. This was now made more urgent by the need for forces to respond to the potential staffing needs created by COVID-19. Staff Associations expressed concern about the lack of clarity on the re-engagement offer and the apparent anticipation by the Metropolitan Police of an agreement on the changes to be made.

There were three areas of concern: the gap in service related to the protected pension-age gap; death in service and abatement. Amar Pannu (HO) said the Home Office was working with HMRC and HM Treasury for them to provide guidance and clarity around these issues. At the same time NPCC were putting together a detailed guidance document to explain the working practices and employment issues for forces which would be circulated to staff associations for their views before being finalised.

Matters raised for information

4. Amar Pannu drew attention to the recent budget, announcement of a change to the tapered annual allowance (AA) pension tax thresholds. These changes would come into effect on 6 April 2020. They would apply to all workforces across both the public and private sectors across the whole of the UK and replaced the specific pension flexibilities that the NHS consulted on last year to resolve tax issues for consultants. Both thresholds at which the tapered annual allowance applies would be raised by £90,000. The minimum to which the annual allowance can be tapered down is to be reduced from £10,000 to £4,000, only affecting those with total income (including pension accrual) above £300,000. For the police pension schemes this would mean that the highest earners (those with net income before tax below £200,000) would no longer be caught. However, they would still be subject to the annual allowance limit of £40,000. The majority of police officers and firefighters were not affected by the taper.

5. A reply to the letter on this matter from the Staff Associations to the Policing Minister would be sent from HMT.

6. There was a discussion on honorarium provision for federated ranks. This had initially been available only to NPCC ranks but had been extended to Superintendents some years ago, following discussion with Peter Spreadbury (HO) in this forum. Staff Associations now asked that the option be extended to the federated ranks. Action Point 5: Home Office Pay Lead to look into the extension of the option for honorarium provision to federated ranks.

Contribution rates for the Police Pensions Regulations 2015

7. The seven staff associations had written to the Home Office on 4 February in response to the consultation request (proposed changes to the police pensions regulations 2015 and the police pensions (AVC provider) (amendment) Regulations 1991) issued by the Home Office on 15 January. Whilst they had previously given their initial views on the proposed change and discussed the matter at the joint Scheme Advisory Board/UK Police Pension Consultative Forum meetings, following receipt of the paper from the Home Office they explained that they were no longer of the opinion that the extension of the current employee contribution rates for a further three years was either appropriate or justified. They explained to the meeting their concern about the impact of the failure to change the accrual rate for the cohort of members who have joined the 2015 CARE Scheme on or after 1 April 2015 and who are not directly impacted by the pensions remedy.

8. The Amending regulations were laid before Parliament on Friday 28 February, to come into force on 1 April, allowing police officer pension contributions to continue to be lawfully collected for the next three years. Home Office noted the points made by the police staff associations, but considered there to be no viable alternative. Given timing constraints and the need to lay the regulations in time to come into force by 1 April, the decision was taken to proceed as proposed. As the uncertainty about pension entitlements arising from the McCloud litigation has not yet been resolved, the value of the schemes to members cannot currently be assessed with certainty.

9. The need to progress these issues was recognised. HMT and Departments were narrowing down the options around McCloud/Sargeant. Although there was an understanding that an answer could not be given, Home Office took on board comments and would pass them on to HMT. Action Point 6: Home Office to pass on comments to HMT regarding the uncertainty about pensions entitlements arising from the McCloud litigation.

Commutation Cap – Pre action letter

10. A copy of a letter of claim (dated 28 February) from PSA and PFEW’s instructed solicitors to GLD was circulated to members. It maintained that the limitation on commutation of pension benefits under the Police Pensions Regulations 1987 for those members completing between 25 and 30 years of pensionable service on retirement, indirectly discriminates against members on grounds of age. As the Home Office is under pre-action protocol on this issue, they could not comment.

2020 Benefit Statements

11. A paper was circulated setting out how benefit statements for 2020 might reflect the finding of discrimination in the transitional protection regulations of the 2015 Police Pension Scheme. Kevin Courtney (NPCC) asked if it would be desirable to have projections in this years’ statements, and if there are no projections, whether there should be some form of wording saying why.

12. Alex Duncan queried whether it would be possible to provide projections for those members with just PPS 1987 service and those with just 2015 CARE Scheme membership. However, it was felt that this would be an added complication for administrators and software providers and would therefore increase costs. Dan Murphy (PSA) stated that it would be advisable to ensure there was mention that officers were still being discriminated against and that there will be officers who are close to retirement that will need accurate predictions. There was then a discussion where the group agreed that such members must be able to obtain an accurate and timely prediction at no cost. The steer from HMT was that there should be a joint approach from across the public sector. Amar Pannu (HO) would feed into discussion with HMT that Scottish public sector pensions benefit statements were already omitting the projections (there is no legal obligation to provide them). It was accepted that, while time was short if wording for statements were to be agreed, the approach should be determined centrally. Once a view had been taken Kevin Courtney would follow up with the administrators’ group.

Action Point 7: Kevin Courtney (NPCC) to update members on progress and final wording for benefit statements re discrimination in the transitional protection regulations of the 2015 Police Pension Scheme.

Report from Scottish SAB and from Northern Ireland’s SABs

13. Antonia Hoskins (DoJNI) gave an update on the position in Northern Ireland. Their SAB response to the HMT working proposal had been sent to the Department of Finance.

14. The Scottish SAB met on 29 January. A number of regulations had gone through in the first quarter including the reconciliation of GMP and as part of that exercise, an overpayment had been identified. They also discussed the ill health eligibility for officers who wish to auto enrol.

Matters for SAB decision

a) TWG’s Response to HMT Paper

15. The Chair welcomed Clair Alcock from the Fire SAB who shared the Fire SAB’s response to the HMT working proposal paper with the Police SAB. It was agreed that both boards would share final responses to ensure matters were covered by both where appropriate. There was common information in the drafts. Clair went through the Fire SAB’s response with members; they had taken a structured approach in their response and highlighted, like the Police SAB response, that they were different to other parts of the public sector. They also pointed out the lack of clarity in the proposal. A key difference in the papers was the fact that there was a higher proportion of those who had transitioned from the firefighter equivalent scheme to the NPPS 2006 into the CARE Scheme who would be better off remaining in the CARE scheme as the Fire SAB have actuaries on their board and were able to illustrate this.

16. The Chair went through the Police SAB’s draft response with members who provided further comments. It was agreed that the response would be signed off by the Police SAB Chair and the Scottish SAB chair and would make reference to the fact discussions were shared with NI. Amar Pannu (HO) said there was no actual deadline however HMT were looking for an early response. The consultation was expected to be in late spring but this was being kept under review due to reprioritisation of resources in the light of Covid-19. Action Point 8: Secretariat to draft SAB response to HMT Paper with further comments and send to Home Office once finalised.

b) Consistency on administration across the scheme

17. Alex Duncan (PFEW) highlighted the number of judicial reviews that the PFEW were having to take in relation to injury benefit cases. This came from a lack of consistency in approach from forces and was creating unnecessary costs for the staff associations and forces. The Chair agreed that, within its wider remit this was a matter which the group could consider. It was agreed that it would be a substantive agenda item for a future meeting once information had been drawn together. Antonia Hoskins (DoJNI) said that the injury benefit was subject to a NI audit office review which she would share with members. Action Point 9: Antonia Hoskins (DoJNI) to share NI audit office review re injury benefit with members.

18. There was a discussion on pension sharing on divorce as there was confusion regarding the recalculation when officers retire, Sara Alderman said there had been a previous guidance attached to a circular.

Action Point 10: Sara Alderman (HO) to forward guidance/circular on pension sharing on divorce.

AOB

19. PFEW asked the Home Office whether the change in law relating to same sex civil partnership, necessitated change in the regulations or the Member Guides. The Home Office said that the regulations referred simply to civil partnerships but agreed that the guidance might need amending. Action Point 11: Home Office to amend the guidance re civil partnership in accordance with legislation.

20. PFEW asked what constitutes pensionable pay and whether there was any knock on effect on police schemes from last year’s firefighter cases on the matter (Booth, Bradshaw etc). PFEW also expressed the opinion that it would be to the benefit of all parties if what constituted pensionable pay was clearly and unequivocally set out in the pension scheme regulations themselves rather than continuing with the current situation. Home Office said they would take this matter to lawyers. Action Point 12: Home Office to take matters regarding clarity of what constitutes as pensionable pay in the pension scheme regulations to lawyers.

21. Wadha Salah (HO) updated members in relation to the transfer of AVC policies to Utmost Life who have released communication to effective scheme members. Following this, Home Office are carrying out work to draft communications for scheme members and would be asking SAB members their views.

Action Point 13: Home Office to draft communication follow up on AVC.

Date of next meeting

22. The next meeting is 1 July 2020, Home Office.

PABEW Secretariat 08.04.2020

	Actions	Date of the Meeting	To be completed by:	Status – to be updated and re- circulated before the next meeting
1	Secretariat to publish agreed minutes of 13 January 2020 on the webpage.	02 April 2020	Secretariat	Completed
2	HO (Amar Pannu) to contact GAD and ask if they could model the impact of 8- 9% opt out on the viability of the scheme.	02 April 2020	Amar Pannu (HO)	Completed Email circulated on 16 April.
3	Kevin Courtney (NPCC) and Shabir Hussain (CPOSA) to look at the opt-out database with Home Office.	02 April 2020	Kevin Courtney (NPCC) and Shabir Hussain (CPOSA)	Ongoing Shabir has provided guidance to analysts.
4	Chair to ask in quarterly letter to pension board chair and scheme managers the number of officers auto re- enrolled this year and the number subsequently re- opting out. This would be followed up by Kevin Courtney	02 April 2020	Chair Kevin Courtney to follow up	Completed
5	Home Office Pay Lead to look into honorarium provision and it being extended to federated ranks.	02 April 2020	Home Office	Ongoing Seeking further information from NPCC.
6	Home Office to pass on comments to HMT regarding the uncertainty about pensions entitlements arising from the McCloud litigation.	02 April 2020	Home Office	Completed HO have passed on comments at meetings with HMT.
7	Kevin Courtney (NPCC) to update members on progress and final wording for benefit statements re discrimination in the transitional protection regulations of the 2015 Police Pension Scheme.	02 April 2020	Kevin Courtney, NPCC	Completed
8	Secretariat to draft SAB response to HMT Paper with further comments and send to Home Office once finalised.	02 April 2020	Secretariat	Completed Final response sent on 9 April, copy was circulated to members.
9	Antonia Hoskins (DoJNI) to share NI audit office review re injury benefit with members.	02 April 2020	Antonia Hoskins (DoJNI)	Completed Email circulated on 8 April.
10	Sara Alderman (HO) to forward guidance/circular on pension sharing on divorce.	02 April 2020	Sara Alderman (Home Office)	Completed Email circulated on 8 April.
11	Home Office to amend the guidance re civil partnership in accordance with legislation.	02 April 2020	Home Office	Ongoing
12	Home Office to take matters regarding clarity of what constitutes as pensionable pay in the pension scheme regulations to lawyers.	02 April 2020	Home Office	Ongoing Currently with HO lawyers.
13	Home Office to draft communication follow up on AVC.	02 April 2020	Home Office	Completed Draft comms has been circulated for members to provide comments.
Outstanding from previous meeting
2	Home Office to provide guidance on scheme sanction charges to secretariat and Chair.	13 January 2020	Home Office	Ongoing HOLA are reviewing the legal advice received by outsourced lawyers
4	Staff Associations’ joint letter explaining their joining the FBU action challenging the pausing of the cost cap remedy to be sent directly to Secretariat, who would share with members.	13 January 2020	Staff Associations and Secretariat	Ongoing The FBU have now issued their letter.
6	Home Office to look at previous advice provided on re-joiners with HMT.	13 January 2020	Home Office	Ongoing HO are moving forward to issue guidance.
2	Angela Chadha to set out timeline of different of upcoming events with pensions impacts.	1 October 2019	Home Office	Completed
2	Wadha Salah to look at ways to make the Home Office communication document for policy and regulatory changes easier to search for online.	2 April 2019	Home Office	Ongoing This had been deprioritised in order to deal with high priority work. Wadha Salah (HO) is expecting response from web team.